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Ram Boost/EGT Gauge Installation
Gauge location

  
Left view, Right view, and drivers view of combination gauge.
Photos are linked to larger images.

My pyro/boost combination gauge was manufactured by Westach and purchased from Geno's Garage. Having the two gauges in one package is very compact and the cross needle type gauge is familiar to many ham radio operators. It has worked well, but I added a series resistor to the light because it was too bright at night for my taste.

The dash top mount is easier for me to see because the gauge can be mounted to directly face the drivers eye in the same focal plane as the dash instruments. The in-dash mounts do not face the driver and are much harder for me to read.

The boost hose and electrical wires easily slipped down between the driver's A-pillar and the side of the dashboard.

Ordering Information and photos from Geno's Garage Catalog.

Also available are dash mounts and A-pillar mounts.

From: Dick Graham      To: "TurboDiesel"
Lots of discussion on A pillar gauges. I like mine and don't think they are a detriment to sight.

Robert Glover has posted three photos of the A-pillar mount on his web page
[photo 1] [photo 2] [photo 3]

The pod came from Mark @ TST... $50 for the pod. It's the AutoMeter one. The guages are all ISSPRO and I got them from Diesel Injection of Pittsburg, because one of the guys there is a personal friend.       Rob

Diesel Injection Service has pillar mounts available.  

 

Subject:   Re: [TD]Combo Gauge
Date:       Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:51:10 -0700
Date:       Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:46:13 -0700
From:      George Rudy      Shepherd@pa.net
To:          TurboDiesel@topica.com

> I have a '99 2500 diesel. You mentioned that the Combo Guage looks good
> on the dash. Precisely where is it mounted? Is any cutting of the dash required?

No you don't have to do any cutting of the dash. What you do is remove the little storage hole just below the air bag switch. The gauge installs in this space. It's very easy and the instructions are very detailed.

By the way, if you have a 5 speed, there is a larger storage compartment directly below where you will be installing the gauge. If you remove this ( 2 screws) it will make life allot easier fishing the wires down through the dash. An added bonus is that this compartment is lighted and removing it allows you to tap your gauge light into the compartment light. Now your gauge light will work with your dimmer switch and have a more stock look.

I ran my wires above the steering column and out through the firewall through an approximately 2" diameter rubber boot that is just above the parking brake pedal. I used a phillips screwdriver to poke a hole through it and fished the wires out.

George, Perry County, PA.

Subject: Re: [TD] Combo Guage Installation in 24 Valve
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:01:05 -0700
From: Jay Bennett   jaybo@pacbell.net
To: TurboDiesel

Just use a 1/2" drive socket set to unscrew the 3/4 plug. You can also buy a single 3/4 to 1/8 NPT reducer at any hardware store; put the hose barb on first and use a deep socket to screw it in. I used no goop or anti-sieze compounds.

Use grease on the drill for the exhaust manifold to reduce the chips flying. Use grease on the pipe tap. Use a magnet to remove all the chips you can from the hole. A few straglers inside won't do any damage.

I cut a piece out of a black plastic VHS tape box (Kmart) for the meter escutcheon plate. I also bought a green 12v light bulb (3 color set from Radio Shack) to use instead of the bulb and green cover provided. The bulb provided was too dim.

Also, while you have the dash bezel removed, unscrew the instrument cluster (4 black screws)(unsnap the gear shift indicator cable if you have an automatic). The cluster just pulls straight out. Remove the cardboard rear cover and tap onto any of the ILLUM lamp power traces on the PC board with some small wires to obtain power for the guage lamp. This allows it to dim along with the instrument lights for a factory installed look.

Enjoy, Jay Bennett


Subject:   Re: Gauges, Tips, and 2 Cents
Date:       Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:15:43 -0700
From:      "Steve McDaniel" <StephenDMcDaniel@ij.net>
To:          cummins

I opted for VDO gauges because they matched the looks of the dash gauges. Black with orange pointers. If you watch NASCAR you'll see alot of VDO gauges as well as ISSPRO and AutoMeter. The other plus was that the EGT probe is a 1/4"NPT setup. The boost and pyro both came to less than $200.00 from a local performance shop. The drawback is that VDO will test your patience if you order something from them.

The boost and pyro are handy to have if you want to monitor boost and Exhaust Gas Temperature but are not necessary for a stock Cummins. As long as you let it idle 3-5 minutes before shutdown after pulling your trailer you shouldn't have to worry about it. The transmission is probably staying cool if your transmission temp light isn't lighting up but a temp gauge would be good to have to be sure. I never saw over 150* with my 95 auto but I wasn't pulling 12,000lbs.

                Steve McDaniel
                98CC 12v 5spd 4.10
 
Boost, pyrometer, and temperature gauges on the kick panel of Ron's Ram. "Ron Stitt" <ronstitt@gate.net>

24 Valve Engine Boost Gauge Tap

Date:        Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:46:55 -0700
To:           cummins

The spot is to the right of the intake on the head. If you look down there you will see a approximately 3/4" plug that can be removed with a 1/2" ratchet and 4" extension.  Ya gotta yank on it pretty hard since the loctite it in.  Tst will send you an adapter if you tell them you have a ISB when ordering.  If you already have gauges you could get the adapter at a home depot.  If your ordering the gauges opt for the better VDO cups the ISSPRO cup are kind of cheap.  For the pyro gauge you'll need to drill a hole in the exhaust manifold and tape it.  Make sure  when you drill and tap the hole straight up and down because the sending unit is a tight fit in the header.  For more info check out the web sites of TST Products and Direct Injection Service DIS.  Both guys have drawings for the pyro gauge mounting.

Hope this sheds some light

Tom    98.5 4X4 cc sb 5spd ISB
==================

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:46:42 -0700
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:46:13 -0700
From: "George E. Rudy"  Shepherd@pa.net
To: TurboDiesel

The intake manifold plug is a 3/4" and takes a 6" extension on a 1/2" ratchet to remove it. There are two plugs in that location, use the one towards the front of the engine just behind the fuel filter. ( I had to use a breaker bar to get mine loose, not enough leverage with a standard ratchet.) The other is a water jacket I do believe. To me the advantage of using this location over the tee at the wastegate was that you will get an actual reading at the intake, after the intercooler. In my mind, a little more precise as to what's going on.

You can buy a 3/4" x 1/8" bushing all ready to go at your local hardware or plumbing supply house. As others have commented, you could also drill and tap the airborne, but I don't see the benefits? As far as torque on the bushing....no idea what the proper specs. would be, just make it "good en tight" ( boy, you can tell I'm from Amish country!)

George

Date:      Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:03:19 -0700
From:     arlan arneberg   arlan@cts.co
To:         TurboDiesel

> There is a 3/4" NPT plug in the intake mainifold right behind the fuel filter,
> instead of the 1/8' NPT plug that the old 12V engine had. I plan to take
> that out, and use a series of NPT reducers to get down to the 1/8" NPT to
> hose barb fitting that comes with the kit. QUESTION - has anybody done
> this yet?

I used the fitting that you are talking about and it was cake. It's was not tight at all. A 1/2 drive ratchet with 3 to 5 inch extension removes it easily. I bought a 3/4 pipe plug with a hex head from NAPA then drilled and tapped it to 1/8 NPT and put in the barbed fitting, but you can also reduce it and it will work great. When you install what every type plug you decide on just teflon tape the threads and snug her in good. I think it's a slight taper fit, you'll feel what I mean both removing and installing.

Arlan Arneberg

=================

Subject:       Re: Gauge Mounting
Date:           Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:13:37 -0500
To:              cummins@cup.hp.com

I mounted mine this past weekend.  When I looked at the ISBs at Scheid Diesel during the rally we found one with the plug where the boost goes but the others we looked at didn't have it (including mine).  I tapped the aluminum air intake housing.  Josh: did they modify the intake manifold to include a plug for boost to go in latter production runs?

If tap the intake I strongly recommend removing it (as I did).  There were a LOT of shavings -- particularly from the tapping.  Grease or other tricks would not have captured them all.  Particularly important since on the intake side of the engine.  A 7/16" drill bit and a 1/4" pipe tap are required.  In my case (ISSPRO hardware), both the exhaust and boost fittings are the same size for tapping.  The total job took around 8 hours (eeeks).  About three hours to do the gauges (exercising extreme paranoia), four hours driving around trying to find someone to sell me a 1/4" pipe tap bit (have a full set of tap & dies bot no pipe taps), 7/16" drill bit (my bits went from 3/8 to 1/2", prior to 3/8" in 1/16" increments!), miniature copper sleeves, and one hour fishing the dip stick sleeve mounting screw out of the frame where it fell.  Typical.

Warning: when attaching the boost hose only finger tighten.  The plastic hose will twist and cause the little copper sleeve to smash and turn sideways if any tighter than finger tight (necessitating a search to find replacement :-(.

It seems to work correctly.  Measures 18lbs max boost which is correct for stock ISB.  Pyro working well, haven't hooked up to a load to see the operating temp other than cruising empty; 300-600 degrees depending on throttle applied.

MAK
=============

 


Pyrometer Probe Installation

If you have a PacBrake or wish to use the drilled and tapped elbow available from Genos Garage, the pyrometer can be mounted in the turbo elbow behind the turbocharger outlet. The temperature reading with this probe location does not respond as rapidly or as accurately as a probe mounted directly in the exhaust manifold, but it still works well. The maximum EGT should be 950 degrees when the probe is installed in the elbow.

<< How deep do you install the pyrometer probe >>

Subject:    Re: DiRT: Pyrometer installation depth
Date:        Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:13:33 EDT
From:      Drdonnelly@aol.com
To:           DiRT@moab.off-road.com

It should protrude from 1/2" to 1" into the port.  The port is about 2" high,
and you don't want the probe more than 1/2 way into it, but far enough to get
into the gas flow.

If you tightened the nut, the ferrule is now "crushed" into the probe and you
can't adjust depth anyway.

Subject:       Re: DiRT: Pyrometer installation depth
Date:           Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:37:09 -0400
From:          KI4CY <my email address>
To:              DiRT@moab.off-road.com

Joe addressed (thoroughly as usual) the pyrometer depth in the exhaust manifold.

My probe is in the elbow after the turbo, so I'll add a comment for those who will install the probe into the turbo elbow.

With the probe in the elbow, a broken tip goes down the exhaust pipe with no additional damage. I just "snug" my nut enough to clamp the ferrule without crushing it, and the tip depth is still adjustable. So far it has not loosened due to engine vibration or thermal cycling. (NOTE: If the pyrometer probe is in the exhaust manifold, it must be clamped tightly to prevent vibration damage because if the tip breaks, the turbo is the next stop... )

As far as proper depth: I have always wondered myself, but the temp reads the same with the tip inserted from about 1/2" to 1 1/2" into the exhaust stream. I  compromised and left the tip inserted about 1" into the elbow.

Dave

Subject: Re: [TD] Combo Guage Installation in 24 Valve
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 22:03:10 -0700
From: Mark Chapple   tstproducts@iquest.net
To: TurboDiesel

The thermocouple probe supplied by TST in Isspro kits is adjustable. There is a ferrule on the probe and tightening the nut crimps the ferrule to hold the probe in place. TST suggests that the probe be adjusted such the the tip of the probe protrudes about 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the exhaust stream.

Mark @ TST

Subject: Re: [TD] Combo Guage Installation in 24 Valve
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:30:07 -0700
From: Mark Chapple
To: TurboDiesel

> After the ferrule nut is tightened, will it be possible to remove the probe
> and adjust the depth?? Or is the ferrule premanetly crimped to the probe?

Once the jamb nut has been heavily tightened on the thermocouple the ferrule it is nearly impossible to move. What I do in this case is take the thermocouple to a grinder, slide the flex spring away from the nut, slide the nut back, grind away the crushed ferrule and install a new one at the required height. I've found the brass ferrules for 1/4 inch nylon tubing sold at many locations will usually work as a replacement. You are right, our instructions don't say how far to insert the probe but I tell my staff to set them for about 1/2 inch protrusion before they are shipped. It don't always happen the way I want.

Mark @ TST

Subject:   Re: [TD] E-Brake and Pyrometer
Date:       Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:15:32 -0700
From:      Drdonnelly@aol.com
To:          TurboDiesel

When the pyro probe is installed in the elbow, it reads low by about 10 deg per psi of boost, but the difference can be greater, especially on temperature "spikes". So 1000 in the elbow at 30 psi gives 1300+ in the manifold. Moving the probe to the pipe is not quite as error-prone as putting it in the glove box, but still a poor idea. If the probe is only about 1/2" (plenty) into the port, it is pretty hard to lose a big enough piece to ruin the turbo. The turbo is pretty resistant to "trash" on the exhaust side, say up to a 1/4" nut. Probes fail VERY rarely. I am suspicious of the dealer's blanket statement about replacing a lot of turbo's for that reason. Usually the probe tip erodes if anything happens to it. Don't gorilla-tighten the swage-lock fitting and squash the tubing, and I don't anticipate breakage.

Subject:    Re: [TD] E-Brake and Pyrometer
Date:        Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:03:00 -0700
From:       Travis Aslin    taslin@earthlink.net
To:           TurboDiesel

Where should the pyrometer probe be mounted?

I talked to Mark at length about it. His suggestion was to put the probe before the turbo. He did say that yes, you can send a 1/4 inch nut through a turbo on the exhaust side and not do 'too' much damage. I did it in about a 1/2 hour. The longest part was going through the hole I drilled in the manifold with a small magnet and my shop vac to try and get as many small shavings out as possible. So I wasted $70 to have Cummins shop drill a hole in the elbow for the exhaust.

Hope this helps!
travis aslin taslin@earthlink.net

Note: While attending the 99 TDR rally, I talked to the Holset representatives at length about what can pass through the turbocharger. We looked at the cutaway turbocharger they had on display and concluded that "not too much damage" would probably include bent turbine blades. A bent blade that contacts the housing will result in immediate and permanent damage to the turbocharger. Even if the blades remain clear of the housing, when turbo is spinning at 100,000+ RPM, bent blades will imbalance the turbo enough to quickly wreck the bearings. YMMV! Dave

Probe Installation in the exhaust manifold - drilling and tapping required.

Subject: Re: [TD] E-Brake and Pyrometer
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:49:06 -0700
From: AWatts6736@aol.com
To: TurboDiesel

Here is a little thing that I did when I drilled my exhaust manifold for the pyrometer. sending unit. I wrapped as many turns of wire as would fit around the drill bit and arced it across a 12 volt battery. This magnetized it to help make drill shaving stick to it. I also coated it very heavily with a fairly heavy grease. This kept shavings entering the manifold to a minimum. I then used this same process on the tap. I then magnetized a slender screwdriver to leave a minimum of shavings in the manifold. May have helped as I do not seem to have any damage to my turbo. Hope this may help some of you who are considering this project yourself. Its really not hard at all.

Subject: Re: [TD] E-Brake and Pyrometer
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:23:14 -0700
From: Drdonnelly@aol.com
To: TurboDiesel

Get a new turbo flange gasket--it is stainless steel and while you may be able to reuse it, it may leak. It only costs a couple $. The 12 valve PN from Cummins is 3901356, and I suspect the 24 valve part is the same.

Subject:   Re: [TD] Combo gauge picture
Date:       Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:07:33 -0700
From:      Dick Graham   rgraham@ont.com
To:          TurboDiesel

My son and I drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold for the temp probe. I didn't think it was all that difficult but my 1/2" drill hung up a couple times and twisted Corey's wrist. We went up in size in steps. Bought a tap at the local hardware store plus a pencil magnet to get most of the shavings out. Tapped the hole, put the probe in, tightened the ferrules and it worked first time. Amazed me!..:)

Dick

 

Notes from Bruce Coons' gauge installation in a 1999 Rams

Subject:   [TD] Combo Guage Install
Date:       Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:43:05 -0700
From:      Bruce Coons    bcoons@seacove.net
To:          TurboDiesel

I posted a question about the combo guage installation, and got a bunch of good feedback and recommendations. It's all appreciated. Let me fill ya'll in on what I've done so far, and I'll post another when I finish the installation.

I mounted both the combo guage and the trans fluid temp guage in one of the dual "guage gizmo" pods from Geno's. It mounts on the driver's side A pillar trim piece. It went in according to the directions. The A pillar trim piece popped off just like it was supposed to, and none of the little plastic or metal thingees broke (whew!) I pre-wired the guages, mounted them in the pod, drilled a 1/2" hole in the trim piece to feed the wires and boost hose through, and mounted the pod to the trim piece with the four "christmas tree" fasteners provided. Then fished the wires done the A pillar, though a conviently located opening in the dash at the base of the A pillar, and under the dash. The trim piece then popped back into place on the A pillar, with just a little bit of jiggling and finagaling. So far so good. Just like the directions, and no cussing required (yet.) The guage gizmo pod makes for a really nice. clean installation. No exposed wires or tubes. The only downside in my installation is due to the tweeter speaker from the high end sound system that is mounted near the bottom of the A pillar. It causes the guage pod to be positioned a little higher in my line of sight than I would like, but what the hey! I am used to being height challeged anyway. For you tall folks it would probably be just right.

Next I did the wiring under the dash. Taped power leads into the cigar lighter harness, and the guage light power into the ashtray light. Both are fused in the junction box fuse panel. The lights dim with the instrument lights. All good to go here. Then used a coathanger wire and old electricians techniques to get the wire bundle and boost hose through the grommet in the firewall above and left of the steering column. This took a little time, vaseline, and cussing, but got 'em through OK. Sure glad DC put that grommet there. (Also found out the next day that my 50 yr old body is NOT used to repeated contortionist trips under the dash. I'm still sore.)

I then mounted the sensor for the trans fluid temp guage to the dipstick per the instructions. That worked pretty slick. Gets the sensor right down in the fluid in the pan, which would seem to be pretty accurate. I used a two pin MOLEX type quick connector rather than the two pin trailer type provided with the kit. I use lots of the MOLEX connectors in my ham radio and other electronics work, so I have a bit of confidence in them. Tested the installation out, and the tranny fluid guage works great!

Now for the hard parts, boost pres and EGT. I got some good tips from you folks on the list. After due consideration, I still think I like the idea of using the 3/4' port in the manifold rather than drilling and tapping the air inlet casting before the air heaters. Although some folks on the list mentioned that a one stage 3/4" to 1/8" reducer is available "in your local hardware store", not in my podunk little town. I did some calling around, and almost resigned myself to having to order one from Mcmaster-Carr, (thanks for the Web Page cite) but I think I have one located in a propane shop a couple of towns East (closer to "the city.") Won't be able to pick it up 'til tomorrow, so time will tell. I did put my 1/2" ratchet and extention in the recess in the 3/4" plug and tried to loosen it a little. No deal. Wouldn't budge. Gonna have to but a breaker bar on it. Probably just need a bit more leverage. With my short little alligator arms, I can hardly reach anything important, much less get leverage on it.

I'll have to hit he Sears Store and some hardware places tomorrow to get the drill bit and tap for the exhaust manifold hole for the EGT sensor. The instructions look fairly starightforward, so I hope this won't take much cussing.

Bruce Coons Copperas Cove, TX '99 QC 2500, 3.54, auto, 4x2.

Subject:    Re: [TD] Combo gauge picture
Date:        Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:59:46 -0700
From:       Bruce Coons   bcoons@seacove.net
To:           TurboDiesel

I was still nervous about the drilling and tapping of the exhaust manifold, and fretted another week. Last Monday night I bought a new 7/16" drill bit, a magnet, and a 1/4" NPT tap and went at it, following the directions that came with the Geno's kit. It ended up an easy, half hour job, including clean up, and the EGT guage worked great. The whole EGT thing was easier than the boost connection. Now I look back at it and think what a piece of cake.

Bruce Coons    bcoons@seacove.net     Copperas Cove, TX

 


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